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Dr. Horrible: the songs were really good

Jul. 19th, 2008 at 11:54 PM
The lyrics are clever, the music works (though Neil Patrick Harris can sing a whole lot better than Nathan Fillion), the story is unoriginal but nicely done, and the whole thing is very very male. The woman was only there for the protagonist & antagonist to fight over, and die by accident, dammit.

They did do an excellent job of balancing sympathies: as soon as Dr. Horrible seemed to be sweet, he'd do something kinda horrible; as soon as The Hammer seemed like a total jerk, he'd do something kinda nice. I think that was the best part. If only Joss Whedon could have extended that kind of twist on expectations to Penny.

I was going to say, "what if someone made an action story with a woman as the protagonist?" but they did and that was Buffy, and it was a pop culture hit, why not more?
Tags:
mood: ambivalent

Comments

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[info]oneangrykate
Jul. 20th, 2008 09:13 am (UTC)
This was my exact problem with it as well! Penny had no personality whatsoever, which I found so strange for a Whedon work. At least make her layered as well as sweet and nice.

I thought for the first half that Penny was going to turn out to be a superheroine as well, which would have at least given her some more agency.
[info]msilverstar
Jul. 20th, 2008 12:25 pm (UTC)
I was hoping she'd be a supervillain, even. Just SOMETHING. I think the three-act three-day format made it worse, there was time to realize how passive she was.
[info]zillah975
Jul. 20th, 2008 10:03 pm (UTC)
I found her mostly irritating and saccharine. I want the awesome kick-ass Joss women back.

I did think Neil and Nathan did really well.

But argh!
[info]dragonkal
Jul. 21st, 2008 10:09 am (UTC)
I finally got around to seeing this and loved it. I thought about 75% of the whole point of its existence was lampooning the superhero/villain/pretty girl genre, so Penny made total sense to me. I saw it as poking fun at the stereotype, not perpetrating the stereotype once more.

"The whole thing is very very male" seems like it's supposed to be a bad thing. What's wrong with being very very male? Why is that any worse than being very very female?
[info]oneangrykate
Jul. 21st, 2008 12:33 pm (UTC)

not speaking for msilverstar, of course, but

In the over-the-top context of the rest of the series, though, it could be argued that the way Penny was handled didn't quite fit.

What's wrong with being very very male?
Nothing, except that things being 'very very male' in mass media is the rule, not the exception. Whedon himself has subverted that rule in his previous projects, so it was a surprise to see the gender dynamics here.
[info]msilverstar
Jul. 22nd, 2008 12:41 am (UTC)
I say "very very male" not as a bad thing, per se, but as a description. I don't think the passivity of the female character was consciously malicious or even unconsciously so. I think it's more that it just did not occur to them that they were treating the woman as a prize to be fought over, killed, and memorialized. Maybe it was part of the whole "I have a camera, let's put on a show" thing, where three brothers were having fun and didn't take a step back for critical distance. It still annoys the fuck out of me.
[info]dragonkal
Jul. 22nd, 2008 12:48 am (UTC)
they were treating the woman as a prize to be fought over, killed, and memorialized

And I thought that was the whole point. Because the girlfriends in superhero movies are always fought over and frequently bite it. I personally found it refreshing to see a male character react to grief with rage, yes, but also with an extremity of depression in those last couple seconds of footage that's so poignant it physically hurt.

I guess I feel like artists get in a double bind with this stuff. I love that Joss did Buffy, but I don't think that happening to focus on male characters in his next project means it's somehow deficient or that Joss has slipped and his hidden chauvenism is showing or something. I think it's great when I see well-balanced, diverse casts, but I'm not keeping a scorecard or mentally tallying up how many times the guy did something stupid vs. the girl.

I guess this is just a very sensitive area for me as I am a woman who writes predominantly about men, and it really bugs me to see people shoved onto their own swords because they write great female characters yet made the apparently egregious error of not then always focusing on great female characters forever after.
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